Key here is that the Axial theory blatantly goes against historical record or purposely leaves its terms vague, hence why it is not taken seriously as a whole (outside of individual features, which are debated by scholars from all sides).
As a whole it’s un-historical while using vagueness as a smokescreen and claiming to be strictly a historically-based concept.
As the linked post mentions, Axial Theory has to move key parts of the “Axial shift” to the very beginning of the historical/textual record, but this invalidates the entire concept of a shift in the record, for that feature.
This is brazen and willful dishonesty in the case of the Rig Veda, our oldest intact Indo-European theological document, which has so-called “Axial Theology” from its earliest layer on.
RV 3.55.1 (from the “family books” or earliest layer) reads:
“Then when the ancient dawns dawned forth, in the track of the cow a great imperishable (syllable) was born [/ was discerned],
which tends to the commandments of the gods: great is the one and only lordship of the gods.”
As the translators Jamison and Brereton state of this hymn:
“The most obvious feature of this hymn is the refrain found in every verse: “great is the one and only lordship of the gods,” notable for its emphasis on unity (ékam “one and only” is the final word of each verse) and for the juxtaposition and implied identity of asura(tvám) “lord(ship)” and devā́nām “gods,” given that in later Vedic the Asuras and the Devas are locked in eternal enmity.
This familiar Vedic mystery of simultaneous unity and diversity is further exemplified by the references to numerous gods (generally unnamed, but usually recognizable), especially in the second part of the hymn, in the manner of many All God hymns.”
A syllable that is Imperishable, found in the Boundless, which tends the One Lordship of the gods?
This is peak supposed Axial mysticism, but characterizes the Rig Veda from its beginning.
The word for the imperishable syllable here (akshara) is a synonym of Brahman in the rest of the corpus (see: AUM), and the “One” emerging from the waters as golden-egg/embryo in Book 10 is called Tad Ekam (That One), using the same word for the gods’ single Lordship here.
I have also shown several instances in Book 5 (see: 5.3) and others where Agni (Fire) is said to be all of the gods and all of the gods to be within him, this once again being from the Family Books layer of the Rig Veda.
These instances alone invalidate foundational portions of the historical frame of Axial Theory, but of course I have shown much more regarding the Skambha or Brahman Pillar, which also is referenced in passing in the Family Books (under the name “skambha (pillar) of heaven”), and fully explicated in Atharvaveda.
All of this demonstrates that the historical basis of the Axial Theory is not only invalidated by the facts on the ground, but begins from a dishonest standpoint of wanting a certain conclusion to be true and being willing to move facts around and ignore evidence to try to reach that pre-determined conclusion.
More honest folks would at least say “we don’t know if the Axial Theology was anything new from the earliest records we have and thus we don’t know if there was any Axial shift at all as it is described.”
But this would render Axial Theory useless as a firm base to call others names from, so the flaccid act is pumped continually with hot air to keep the grift rolling.
These people don’t have an interest in finding historical or theological truth.
Pseudo-history of this sort is a dead end because it is simply not based in reality.
See my previous video about the PIE Absolute which debunks the theory of an Axial period theological shift : https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DKLsv3VG02M
- O’Gravy, The Sun Riders
@solarcult
As a whole it’s un-historical while using vagueness as a smokescreen and claiming to be strictly a historically-based concept.
As the linked post mentions, Axial Theory has to move key parts of the “Axial shift” to the very beginning of the historical/textual record, but this invalidates the entire concept of a shift in the record, for that feature.
This is brazen and willful dishonesty in the case of the Rig Veda, our oldest intact Indo-European theological document, which has so-called “Axial Theology” from its earliest layer on.
RV 3.55.1 (from the “family books” or earliest layer) reads:
“Then when the ancient dawns dawned forth, in the track of the cow a great imperishable (syllable) was born [/ was discerned],
which tends to the commandments of the gods: great is the one and only lordship of the gods.”
As the translators Jamison and Brereton state of this hymn:
“The most obvious feature of this hymn is the refrain found in every verse: “great is the one and only lordship of the gods,” notable for its emphasis on unity (ékam “one and only” is the final word of each verse) and for the juxtaposition and implied identity of asura(tvám) “lord(ship)” and devā́nām “gods,” given that in later Vedic the Asuras and the Devas are locked in eternal enmity.
This familiar Vedic mystery of simultaneous unity and diversity is further exemplified by the references to numerous gods (generally unnamed, but usually recognizable), especially in the second part of the hymn, in the manner of many All God hymns.”
A syllable that is Imperishable, found in the Boundless, which tends the One Lordship of the gods?
This is peak supposed Axial mysticism, but characterizes the Rig Veda from its beginning.
The word for the imperishable syllable here (akshara) is a synonym of Brahman in the rest of the corpus (see: AUM), and the “One” emerging from the waters as golden-egg/embryo in Book 10 is called Tad Ekam (That One), using the same word for the gods’ single Lordship here.
I have also shown several instances in Book 5 (see: 5.3) and others where Agni (Fire) is said to be all of the gods and all of the gods to be within him, this once again being from the Family Books layer of the Rig Veda.
These instances alone invalidate foundational portions of the historical frame of Axial Theory, but of course I have shown much more regarding the Skambha or Brahman Pillar, which also is referenced in passing in the Family Books (under the name “skambha (pillar) of heaven”), and fully explicated in Atharvaveda.
All of this demonstrates that the historical basis of the Axial Theory is not only invalidated by the facts on the ground, but begins from a dishonest standpoint of wanting a certain conclusion to be true and being willing to move facts around and ignore evidence to try to reach that pre-determined conclusion.
More honest folks would at least say “we don’t know if the Axial Theology was anything new from the earliest records we have and thus we don’t know if there was any Axial shift at all as it is described.”
But this would render Axial Theory useless as a firm base to call others names from, so the flaccid act is pumped continually with hot air to keep the grift rolling.
These people don’t have an interest in finding historical or theological truth.
Pseudo-history of this sort is a dead end because it is simply not based in reality.
See my previous video about the PIE Absolute which debunks the theory of an Axial period theological shift : https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DKLsv3VG02M
- O’Gravy, The Sun Riders
@solarcult
YouTube
The Proto-Indo-European Absolute (“Axial Age” DEBUNKED by New Evidence)
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/taliesinsmap
In this video I take a hammer to the “Axial Age” theory, a theory I used to believe myself.
Meanwhile I provide brand new evidence that should finally bring harmonious agreement to all factions.
This is a…
In this video I take a hammer to the “Axial Age” theory, a theory I used to believe myself.
Meanwhile I provide brand new evidence that should finally bring harmonious agreement to all factions.
This is a…
Forwarded from Traditional Authentic Orthodox Heathenry
The "Axial Age Theory" - a Liberal-Marxist historical narrative - has, since its appearance in the contemporary online pagan discourse, done nothing but harm in the popular understanding of the history of ideas and the history of the West as a whole. It has captured the minds of the most vulgar and illiterate, the uncultivated and uneducated bunch whose beliefs and sense of history can be called nothing but folkslop.
This narrative of history, of a supposed Axial Age, does not only fail to provide the reason for its occurence, it is also poorly defined by its time period, geographical location and the supposed set of ideas that characterize this age, making it a completely useless descriptor in terms of historical discourse.
If the general initially established characteristics of "Axiality" are to be considered, it has been repeatedly shown that these characteristics appear in much older literary records than the supposed Axial Age took place, leading its proponents to push the Axial Age to the beginning of our written record, which again essentially renders it meaningless due to the lack of pre-Axial documents. This obviously doesn't mean that the time period between 800-200 BCE wasn't a period of change for many societies. Were some societies transformed during this time period in "Axial-like" fashion? Certainly. But many societies were transformed in an Axial-like fashion even before this time period, many were transformed much later, and many exhibit Axial-like characteristics from the beginning of our record! Additionally, many societies that have seemingly exhibited this transformation scarcely meet all the criteria of what defines "Axiality."
Quite simply, all of this leads us to dismiss the theory of an Axial Age, just like every other Liberal-Marxist theory of history.
We recommend the following article.
This narrative of history, of a supposed Axial Age, does not only fail to provide the reason for its occurence, it is also poorly defined by its time period, geographical location and the supposed set of ideas that characterize this age, making it a completely useless descriptor in terms of historical discourse.
If the general initially established characteristics of "Axiality" are to be considered, it has been repeatedly shown that these characteristics appear in much older literary records than the supposed Axial Age took place, leading its proponents to push the Axial Age to the beginning of our written record, which again essentially renders it meaningless due to the lack of pre-Axial documents. This obviously doesn't mean that the time period between 800-200 BCE wasn't a period of change for many societies. Were some societies transformed during this time period in "Axial-like" fashion? Certainly. But many societies were transformed in an Axial-like fashion even before this time period, many were transformed much later, and many exhibit Axial-like characteristics from the beginning of our record! Additionally, many societies that have seemingly exhibited this transformation scarcely meet all the criteria of what defines "Axiality."
Quite simply, all of this leads us to dismiss the theory of an Axial Age, just like every other Liberal-Marxist theory of history.
We recommend the following article.
Who is Math fab Mathonwy?
Profile of The Celtic Savitar
from my book, Taliesin's Map: The Comparative Guide to Celtic Mythology
New video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQR99PzJx4o
Profile of The Celtic Savitar
from my book, Taliesin's Map: The Comparative Guide to Celtic Mythology
New video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQR99PzJx4o
YouTube
Who is Math fab Mathonwy? The Celtic Savitar (Celtic Mythology Decoded)
https://www.patreon.com/TaliesinsMap
This is an excerpt from my book, available here:
Taliesin's Map: The Comparative Guide to Celtic Mythology
https://tinyurl.com/y38makfp
#celticmythology #vedic #comparativemythology #greekmythology #Savitar #solar #paganism…
This is an excerpt from my book, available here:
Taliesin's Map: The Comparative Guide to Celtic Mythology
https://tinyurl.com/y38makfp
#celticmythology #vedic #comparativemythology #greekmythology #Savitar #solar #paganism…
Live now discussing Pushan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYBepFpsc_w
YouTube
The Pushan Type God (Deity Chart Mythstreams)
Live discussing Pushan, Pan, Odin and their Celtic parallels
https://www.patreon.com/TaliesinsMap
My book:
Taliesin's Map: The Comparative Guide to Celtic Mythology
https://tinyurl.com/y38makfp
https://www.patreon.com/TaliesinsMap
My book:
Taliesin's Map: The Comparative Guide to Celtic Mythology
https://tinyurl.com/y38makfp
We were just discussing the Gandharva/Hermes type god https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q939sAGFO3I
YouTube
The Gandharva Type Deity (Deity Chart Mythstreams)
Who is the Gandharva type god and how is he connected to Hermes?
https://www.patreon.com/TaliesinsMap
My book:
Taliesin's Map: The Comparative Guide to Celtic Mythology
https://tinyurl.com/y38makfp
https://www.patreon.com/TaliesinsMap
My book:
Taliesin's Map: The Comparative Guide to Celtic Mythology
https://tinyurl.com/y38makfp
Live now discussing Soma, Dionysus, Midir/Arawn and Njordr https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms9oD2gqUt0
YouTube
The Soma Type God (Deity Chart Mythstreams)
Who is the Soma god, and what is The Great Lunar Cycle?
We discuss
https://www.patreon.com/TaliesinsMap
My book:
Taliesin's Map: The Comparative Guide to Celtic Mythology
https://tinyurl.com/y38makfp
We discuss
https://www.patreon.com/TaliesinsMap
My book:
Taliesin's Map: The Comparative Guide to Celtic Mythology
https://tinyurl.com/y38makfp
We’re going to stream an hour earlier today, ie in 30 minutes/3:15 EST
This strikes me as a straw man of an important issue.
It is not the way you are going to win this debate, and I respect this person’s philosophical knowledge.
Ancient paganism was based on highly trained perfected SEERS who theologically and otherwise ruled over the religious sphere of the tribe. The mythic/theological current was extremely governed by tradition and so was highly controlled.
It wasn’t based on reading philosophy books and rationalizing toward what seemingly better logical deduction could win out.
The approach of this video will only preach to the choir, but the real question of what constitutes heresy within religious change is not something we can ignore to an infinite degree.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hv5_oacx1uo
It is not the way you are going to win this debate, and I respect this person’s philosophical knowledge.
Ancient paganism was based on highly trained perfected SEERS who theologically and otherwise ruled over the religious sphere of the tribe. The mythic/theological current was extremely governed by tradition and so was highly controlled.
It wasn’t based on reading philosophy books and rationalizing toward what seemingly better logical deduction could win out.
The approach of this video will only preach to the choir, but the real question of what constitutes heresy within religious change is not something we can ignore to an infinite degree.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hv5_oacx1uo
YouTube
On Protestant Paganism
Why we shouldn't treat pagan poetry as divine revelation.
Efnysien is a misunderstood “antihero” and I am his #1 apologist. Crucially, he is the watchdog of order and has the correct foresight that the marriage of Branwen to Matholwch is ill-omened in some respect and will change the political order in a negative fashion.
His actions are to try to sabotage this union, but instead he exacerbates the hostilities, before finally recognizing his own fault and self-sacrificing to barely salvage a victory in the war.
Mythically Efnysien is equivalent of Cronus attacking the abusive husband of Gaia, Ouranos.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efnysien
His actions are to try to sabotage this union, but instead he exacerbates the hostilities, before finally recognizing his own fault and self-sacrificing to barely salvage a victory in the war.
Mythically Efnysien is equivalent of Cronus attacking the abusive husband of Gaia, Ouranos.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efnysien
Efnysien casting Matholwch’s child Gwern into the fire is like if Odin committed the offspring of Ymir to the fire when he divided him. No actual tragedy, but something else entirely. The future of the whole world is at stake in this story, since it’s the Welsh creation myth, though even read as a human drama the kingdom’s future is in the balance. And Efnysien really is the main character.
Metaphysically, Gwern is “entrusted” into the fire, only for his essence to be reborn as the human ancestors found in the caves at the end of the story. If you think Efnysien is the villain rather than tragic antihero, you may be spiritually Zoroastrian.
This was basically Zoroaster’s conclusion when looking at the equivalent Iranic god. Thus he demonized that god under the name Ahriman.
But he was a god originally.
Ahriman attacks and slays Gayomard (= Matholwch) and Gayomard’s seed (offspring) falls to earth and is entrusted to the Fire god Neyrosang. It then gives rise to the two tree-ancestors of humans, Maisya and Maisyanag. The same concept as Gwern (“Alder”).
But Efnysien is the guardian of the order of things in his humanized divine kingdom, and he stands for the god of the divine Mind.
He is not consulted in the marriage which is the marriage of Heaven and Earth (Matholwch and Branwen) and he is shown to have special foresight. He knows this marriage will lead to the disruption of the political order, and has his concerns confirmed later by the abuse of his sister Branwen by Matholwch.
When Gwern is born to Matholwch and Branwen he embodies the threat of the continuation of the marriage that Efnysien sees as the destruction and usurpation of his kingdom and all order.
He tries to destroy this child but he is too late because the damage is done. Meanwhile, Gwern arguably remanifests as the human ancestor(s).
The war spirals further and so Efnysien salvages it by self-sacrifice to destroy the cauldron of regenerative un-death while announcing his own culpability in causing all of the misfortune. He has essentially set things as right as he could by the end of the war, this being an allegory for the god of the divine Mind (Nous) shaping and trying to set right the chaotic outflow of the moment of worldly creation.
Efnysien is Gwyn ap Nudd, Fionn, Cronus, Odin, Rudra, Ahriman.
The hostile Destroyer who always guards order and so also severely reshapes the catastrophic spark of creation into order time and again. “I come from battle and conflict” - Gwyn ap Nudd,
The Dialogue of Gwyddno Garanhir and Gwyn ap Nudd
Metaphysically, Gwern is “entrusted” into the fire, only for his essence to be reborn as the human ancestors found in the caves at the end of the story. If you think Efnysien is the villain rather than tragic antihero, you may be spiritually Zoroastrian.
This was basically Zoroaster’s conclusion when looking at the equivalent Iranic god. Thus he demonized that god under the name Ahriman.
But he was a god originally.
Ahriman attacks and slays Gayomard (= Matholwch) and Gayomard’s seed (offspring) falls to earth and is entrusted to the Fire god Neyrosang. It then gives rise to the two tree-ancestors of humans, Maisya and Maisyanag. The same concept as Gwern (“Alder”).
But Efnysien is the guardian of the order of things in his humanized divine kingdom, and he stands for the god of the divine Mind.
He is not consulted in the marriage which is the marriage of Heaven and Earth (Matholwch and Branwen) and he is shown to have special foresight. He knows this marriage will lead to the disruption of the political order, and has his concerns confirmed later by the abuse of his sister Branwen by Matholwch.
When Gwern is born to Matholwch and Branwen he embodies the threat of the continuation of the marriage that Efnysien sees as the destruction and usurpation of his kingdom and all order.
He tries to destroy this child but he is too late because the damage is done. Meanwhile, Gwern arguably remanifests as the human ancestor(s).
The war spirals further and so Efnysien salvages it by self-sacrifice to destroy the cauldron of regenerative un-death while announcing his own culpability in causing all of the misfortune. He has essentially set things as right as he could by the end of the war, this being an allegory for the god of the divine Mind (Nous) shaping and trying to set right the chaotic outflow of the moment of worldly creation.
Efnysien is Gwyn ap Nudd, Fionn, Cronus, Odin, Rudra, Ahriman.
The hostile Destroyer who always guards order and so also severely reshapes the catastrophic spark of creation into order time and again. “I come from battle and conflict” - Gwyn ap Nudd,
The Dialogue of Gwyddno Garanhir and Gwyn ap Nudd
At 3pm EST I will do a visual walkthrough of the Rig Veda Battle of 10 Kings hymn vs Exodus Song of the Sea on my channel, and explain the source of the Burning Bush scene as well if I have time
This is the greatest smoking gun of the entire Bible bar none and an absolute unicorn in Comparative Mythology
- O’Gravy
This is the greatest smoking gun of the entire Bible bar none and an absolute unicorn in Comparative Mythology
- O’Gravy
While the Song of the Sea parallel is the greatest smoking gun in the Bible, the Burning Bush origin/parallel is almost as blatant, and as interesting in its own way
I’ll go into it live tomorrow (Sunday) 3:15 pm EST
- O’Gravy
I’ll go into it live tomorrow (Sunday) 3:15 pm EST
- O’Gravy
The Source of the Burning Bush of Exodus https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cgmnb-zkUG0&
YouTube
The SOURCE of the Burning Bush of Exodus 3
Demonstrating the source of the Burning Bush scene and related
This seems to be the biggest smoking gun of the entire Bible and a unicorn in Comparative Mythology that demands sober and rigorous explanation
Full visual walkthrough in video below
- O’Gravy, The Sun Riders
@solarcult
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4oLYuqhRmuw
Full visual walkthrough in video below
- O’Gravy, The Sun Riders
@solarcult
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4oLYuqhRmuw
YouTube
The Bible's Smoking Gun: Evidence of Borrowing from the Vedas? | UNICORN of Comparative Mythology
https://www.patreon.com/TaliesinsMap
My Book: Taliesin's Map: The Comparative Guide to Celtic Mythology
https://tinyurl.com/y38makfp
***Please watch on HD for text clarity.
A full line-by-line walkthrough of the Song of the Sea (Exodus 15, also 14) and…
My Book: Taliesin's Map: The Comparative Guide to Celtic Mythology
https://tinyurl.com/y38makfp
***Please watch on HD for text clarity.
A full line-by-line walkthrough of the Song of the Sea (Exodus 15, also 14) and…
Live discussing the Agni type god https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYOzkD-WzjQ
YouTube
The Agni Type God (Deity Chart Mythstreams)
Discussing the Agni type god with Arno and Josephus
https://www.patreon.com/TaliesinsMap
My book:
Taliesin's Map: The Comparative Guide to Celtic Mythology
https://tinyurl.com/y38makfp
https://www.patreon.com/TaliesinsMap
My book:
Taliesin's Map: The Comparative Guide to Celtic Mythology
https://tinyurl.com/y38makfp
Updated Vedic influence on the Hebrew Bible playlist including my latest interview:
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLo8PunHbewPz_YF8-XuR4jb06Em9NW8Ti
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLo8PunHbewPz_YF8-XuR4jb06Em9NW8Ti
We discussed the Apam Napat type god (Heimdallr, Neptune, Nechtan) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a0y7JjrxgyE
YouTube
The Apam Napat Type God (Deity Chart Mythstreams)
Discussing Apam Napat, Heimdallr, Neptune, Nechtan, with Arno and Josephus
https://www.patreon.com/TaliesinsMap
My book:
Taliesin's Map: The Comparative Guide to Celtic Mythology
https://tinyurl.com/y38makfp
https://www.patreon.com/TaliesinsMap
My book:
Taliesin's Map: The Comparative Guide to Celtic Mythology
https://tinyurl.com/y38makfp
Discussing the Varuna (Terrible Sovereign) type god live https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv6Mq8tBlzM