https://avammag.com/15007/interview/%d8%a2%db%8c%d9%86%d9%87%e2%80%8c%d8%a7%db%8c-%d9%85%d8%b9%d9%88%d8%ac-%d8%af%d8%b1-%d9%85%d9%82%d8%a7%d8%a8%d9%84-%d8%ba%d8%b1%d8%a8/