https://avammag.com/17905/interview/%da%a9%d8%a7%d9%85%d8%b1%d8%a7%d9%86-%d8%b9%d8%af%d9%84-%d8%b9%da%a9%d8%a7%d8%b3-%da%af%d9%81%d8%aa%da%af%d9%88/