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https://xdrink.org/2015/02/08/%e5%8f%8d%e6%80%9d-%e4%b8%80%e5%80%8b%e9%9f%8b%e4%bc%af%ef%bc%8c%e5%90%84%e8%87%aa%e8%a1%a8%e8%bf%b0/
[對話] 一個韋伯,各自表述